and obviously the fiscal cliff. we'll talk to two men on opposite sides of this, the executive director of stop gambling. i'm going to start with you, terry rich, you obviously run one of the big lotteries in america. you obviously heard what dave said, they don't like it, a tax on the poor, and really it should just be cancelled. >> you know, as he said that, i would just add one word, it is opti optional revenue, people don't have to play. and as lotteries work across the country under great leadership of the governor and legislature, who wouldn't allow, as you say, preying on the poor, it is important that we continue to talk about the lottery. that it is not an investment. i absolutely agree with that. this is a chance to have some entertainment. and in this tough economic times to dream just a little bit. so anybody who is spending too much, we'll say don't play. we don't want you to play, get help, you know somebody who is doing that. every lottery has a website and an address with how to get help. this is dis